Do we really care about GLOBAL WARMING ???

[Vishal Trivedi]

We people don't care about tomorrow, we don't care whats going to happen after 100 yrs, and in every warning given to us about G.W (Global Warming) by everyone around the planet says that if we don't start taking initiative to protect the world today it will affect us tomorrow. But the tomorrow will come after 100 yrs?? who among us or of this generation will be there after 100 yrs... to see what is going to happen at that point of time.
So, my advice to all the authorities and to all the people around the world who warns us about GW would be that if you want to awake this generation don't show whats going to happen after 50-60 yrs show us whats going to within 50-60 yrs.

[Gordon Couger]

The only thing sure about the future is uncertainty. I think Vishal Trivedi on October 12, 2007 is mostly right. Too many of us do nothing but talk about it if that.

It is clear the world is on the upper end of a natural warming cycle. While it is unclear how much effect he has here is no question that man can add to it and subtract from it. The current thinking sweeping the world is man is the major cause of warming in the last hundred years.

They discount the fact the sun spots have been more active than normal the last 100 years. Form 1950 to 1990 they were really strong.

The average frequency of major volcanic eruptions that cool the climate enough to effect crops is 2 per century. The last one was when Krakatau erupted in 1883. After a cluster of volcanic eruptions around the world in 1814 the volcanic eruptions of Mount Tambora caused the The Year Without a Summer or Eighteen Hundred and Froze to Death in 1816. It effected farming with chilling cold. It caused a killing freeze every month of the year in the upper midwest and north of there every month of the year all around the world. Food prices were up 8 to 10 times what they were before the eruption. It was worst famine in the developed world we have had. Farming was poor for at lest 5 years because of cool weather.

So I feel mother nature has done her fair share for the warming in the last 100 years with solar heating and no volcanic cooling.

Of course man should manage the way he lives, works, and designs things to put less carbon, methane, etc in the air. It is good for the environment and can be good for the pocket book too. The answer for using gasoline is not to use as much. Live close to where you work. Take a bus, bike or walk when you can. Turn off the lights when you aren't using them. Buy from companies that use good conservation and let the ones know that don't why you don buy from them.

Don't jump on the band wagon to spend a fortune on schemes to clean up the air until it is well proven that they work and are worth it. While still getting money from the farm I like the prices that gasohol have added on the the run up in prices caused by the gain shortage I have alway been an out spoken critic of gasohol. Faming fuel with a total yield of 13% over input is unthinkable in any other business. And some studies get less energy back in the form of gasohol than it took to make it.

Just my opinion
Gordon

[Michelle]

My husband watched on tv an "expert" on global warming. This guy has been studying earth changes for most of his life & studied past earth changes & noticed a pattern that global warming comes & goes every couple million years. He said that the earth is in it's normal cycle. He said what happens, is when the earth gets too hot from the sun that an ice age shortly follows. The ice age sticks around for hundreds of thousands of years like it did in the dinosaur ages past. The obvious answer then is just that; that earth is going through this same cycle once again with the sun. However, it doesn't help that we litter or pollute the air or pollute the water. Nor does it help us that War Mongers want to rape Mother Earth of her much needed Uranium & Natural Resources that can't be recycled or replaced. (Uranium is used to make bombs & missiles for those of you who don't know what Uranium is mostly used for [that I've heard of].)
I can afford to do only so much. For those who care like my husband & myself, we recycle our garbage. Jim & I use the fireplace in the winter to not use so much fossil fuels for heating & cooking. We don't use the AC, we open a window or two & sleep in the basement when needed. We filter our water using reverse osmosis filter system so we can get rid of the impurities in our drinking & bathing water, chlorine mainly. We try to grow our own garden in the summer to eat organic fruits & vegetables, not the store bought pesticide & insecticide FILLED fruits & vegetables. Rumor has is that Agent Orange has been put into certain brands of fertilizers. Don't ask me which ones because I just use straight ground & rabbit poop for my fertilizer for my garden. At least this route, I know what went into the ground. I agree men & women alike should take better care of Mother Earth.
Have any of you listened to the music video I've included here that is called, "Where Is The Love" by Black Eyed Peas & have read the words to the song that I've included. It goes deep man. I recommend listening to it & then do the same thing with the other music video I've included called, "What It's Like" by Everlast.
The reason I've bothered to mention these two music videos is in hope to inspire you to Brotherhood. To Sisterhood. To Family, Because in this way of Brotherhood/Sisterhood/Family, we can open our minds WIDER & change all the bad stuff that's going on around us permanently, if we would only stop fearing & doubting AND just believe in ourselves that we can change for the better our small corner of the world. It is only when we replace hate with love that we will change this planet for the betterment of all. Because we will start to GIVE A DAMN!!! In turn, we save ourselves!!!!!!
Lots of Love to You ALL,
Michelle, Reverend Mother

[Gordon Couger]

Michelle,

I spent most of my life farming. Today we make nearly twice the food on 1/3 the fuel and 60 or 70% as much fertilizer as we did 40 years ago. One of the biggest improvements I have seen is the almost complete end to soil erosion. In the 50's once or twice a year there would be a brown or yellow wall of dust come from the west that they turned out school for so we could see to get home.

The last dust storm was in the 70's. Now with no till faming no soil is lost to the blowing wind and almost none to water erosion.

The fist thing my wife and her siblings did when they inherited an irrigated farm in West Texas was to spend a small fortune installing drip irrigation in order to get better yields on half as much water.

Later in my life I worked in research one of the things I did was do the software design and programing for a sprayer that would use less than half as much herbicide to control weeds as we had been using. It could also be reprogramed to put top dressed nitrogen on wheat and hold the yield the same with half as much fertilizer or increase he yield 8% using the same amount of fertilizer. Both are enough to make the difference between profit and loss on a crop some years.

Other things I am doing in research on my own right now is trying to get a handle on the worlds agricultural production and consumption for the last 47 years. Something impossible to do with anything but a super computer until the recently when high speed computers that can do the job became available I could afford.

Working with people that worked all their lives in research and spending much of mine on the practical side of agriculture I think I may know more about than some expert on TV. I sure know how to improve yields using less resources. That's not a story that those pushing the idea man is the root of global warming want told.

Increasing ag output while holding inputs the same or decreasing them has been going on for at least 200 years. A combination of plant breeding, better understanding though research, technological improvement and unceasing experiments payed off in the past and it will in the future.

I firmly believe the answer to our problems are in research and technology. From my own experience with hand held herbicide applicators I know that instead of using 50% less herbicide to do the job I can use 90% less herbicide to do the same job. It is just a lot easier to teach a human than a computer. I know that doesn't agree with experts on TV. But I have yet to see a TV expert with calluses on his hands from doing anything but writing. None of them have any real wold experience making their ideas work. I do and the future is lot brighter than some paint it.

Gordon

[Larry D. Matyas]

Gordon,
Improvements in technology will help us feed the Earth, clean the air, re-utilize the Earth's resources (recycling), and make the Ocean better at what it does. I see hope for the future of the World in people like you. The cycle of Earth intelligence is, "Necessity is the Mother of invention." Looking out over an open field, fat with crops, utilizing the latest genius, to put food on the World's tables, and being rewarded for your efforts is God's way of saying, "Well done thou good and faithful servant." I, for one, appreciate your efforts.

The World needs more good vibrations and I thank-you for your part in bringing more to us.

[Michelle]

You are right, Larry! I realized that not all people can grow their own garden. So, thanks, Gordan for growing crops to help feed the hungry. Michelle

[Michelle]

Still, you need to understand Gordan that plants are energy based (photosynthesis) than chemically based. When we put chemicals on the plant, we end up eating those chemicals. That's why organic is the big word now. You do what you feel is right, Gordan. I'm not going to tell you what to do or try to manipulate you in any way. My point is as far as my garden is concerned, I will never use a fertilizer nor an insecticide. I use freshly cut human hair or old stinky shoes on my fence lines to keep rabbits, deer, & raccoons out of my garden. I don't like spiders, but even spiders have their usefulness to rid my garden of locusts & Japanese beetles etc. So, I don't NEED insecticides or fertilizers. The rabbit poop I use comes from a neighbor who uses organic feed. I still end up with abundant crops which I give thanks to God for.

[Gordon Couger]

Hi Michelle,

I am not sympathetic to organic methods or those that promote them. It is not personal. But those that promote them simply don't understand the magnitude of the problem the world faces and have listened to the fear mongers that sell their products by creating fear of conventional faming methods. Unlike those in conventional agriculture that recall their products at the first hint of trouble the organic community denies the problem as Earth Bound did with spinach in 2006 until 3 days before the FDA report that showed it came from them came out. Compare that to Peter Pan Peanut butter when Cargill recalled all the peanut butter and shut down the plant before the cause of the problem was found.

There are a few soils in river and creek bottoms that flood now and then that will produce under organic methods by getting a dose of what the farmer fails to supply from up stream now and then. My wife owns one like that. I farmed it a few years when we got out of school and rotations with legumes in an alfalfa for 5 to 7 years, wheat for 2 or 3 years and cotton for 3 to 5 years worked fine with no fertilizer at all. Not much land can farmed that way.

With India and China (40% of the world population) eat 4% to 10% more meat a year and we haven't produced as much grain as the world use for the last 7 years in face of a rapid growing demand organic methods that will by best estimates only feed 1/3 of the people living today simply can't be considered. At the best it only produces 75% as much as the methods I uses 25 years ago and is not increasing its yield very much at all while the modern methods increase yields 2% to 3% a year and 20% to 40% for 3 or 4 years when introduced to third world counties then level off to 2 to 5% for a while until they mature out at 2 to 3% a year. The best example is China that has had the smoothest upward curve since 1960 of any country in the world. Increasing their yields by a factor of 3 or more while the rest of the world only doubled theirs.

When we ran a 500 head feed lot and put all the manure on 240 acres of cotton, wheat, alfalfa and grass in Southwest Oklahoma all crops but alfalfa still showed substantial response to nitrogen fertilizer. In all kinds of faming one must replace the nitrogen, phosphate and potassium carried away in crops or by erosion. The fact that you choose to call man made nitrogen and undesirable chemical has no basis in fact other than it can be applied in amounts that are too concentrate and burn the crop. It can also be applied in large amounts that cause water pollution. If you can get enough organic nitrogen in a concentrated form such a urine you can do the same with it. Man made nitrogen requires more care in application to not have undesirable effects but that a management issue not something wrong with the product.

There is not near enough manure in the world to furnish the nitrogen the crops of the world need by a very large margin. In 1900 when the British blockade Germany and cut of the supply of nitrates from Chile they had a famine with far more sources of manure and far less people than we have today. The only thing that saved them was Fritz Haber inventing the process that make Ammonia from water and natural gas. The source of commercial nitrogen fertilizer.

I ran an organic farm for a short while and found the expectations of the owner so unrealistic I left before I found another job. They expected normal yields on acid Big Thicket soils that the manager before me had produced using conventional fertilizer and pesticides.

Comparing organic methods with modern no till methods organic method come off very poorly. It takes 3 or 4 times more fuel to farm the organic crops and the soil using no till methods build up organic matter at a rate of 1 to 2% a year to the point after 20 years they have half as much organic matter and native sod where land farm with organic or conventional methods has only 10% to 20% of virgin sod. The erosion from the t

[Gordon Couger]

I prefer to use chemical I know what is in over what ever comes from the rabbit pen. While being raised on a farm I am immune to most deceases livestock carry I really don't want to push my luck.

I won't get E. coli O157:H7 or any other disease or parasite from a bag of 11-46-0 or 33-0-0 fertilizer and who know what disease or parasite the rabbits may have. The fungicide I use doesb't build up in the soil and a is safe for humans unlike the copper based ones used on organic farms. I am not worried about Round Up causing the soil erosion that killing weeds with tillage allows to happen.

What you feed yourself and your family is your business.

If I was raising a garden your way I would sure get a Ultra Violet light to check for fungal toxins on anything I ate form the garden that could have them. Stored dry peas, corn, peanuts or other grains or nuts are at considerable risk if they are insect cut, put up to wet or put up on a cool wet year.

The toxins the fungi make the seed glow under UV light. Commercial dealers reject a load with more than 4 grains that glow under a UV light in a 5 pound sample for either human or animal feed until it under goes extensive testing for toxins to find out exactly what the are.

When a 48,000 pound truck load of grain can be condemned and dumped on the ground over 4 seeds that glow under UV light I think you will agree it is something the grain industry thinks is serious. Yet the organic industry call it fear mongering when criticized for mycotoxins that are found in organic food and reported to the press. I think that's a bit of a double standard.

For your own safety seeds grown in wet years, put up to wet or damaged by insects are most likely to be a problem. When you have combinations of those factors it gets a lot worse. It is especially bad when no fungicide is use on the seed at planting or used on the crop when it is affected by fungal diseases such as rusts, smuts, bunts, mildew, etc. While these disease don't make mycotoxins they indicate conditions that are favorable for the growth of the fungi that do.

Almost any thing in cool damp weather can have the fungi that make mycotoxins growing on it at some time.

I have yet to meet an organic farmer that understood how to properly handle and store grain. I expect there are some somewhere but all the proponents of organic agriculture I have come across it is a matter of faith with them not a matter of logic. And trying to change their minds is a futile as trying to change their religion. Often it seems their religion, organic and green beliefs are one in the same and not open to change no matter how strong the proof.

Do a google search on ergot and
Aflatoxin and see the problems they cause.

Just because you don't put toxins on what you grow it doesn't mean mother nature won't do it for you.

I continue to be amazed at the the things the natural food movement over looks because it is shows that what the claim isn't as safe as they want every one to believe. Mycotoxins are some of the most toxic substances there are. To ignore them and not advise growers to do simple test for them is criminal. While they are not very common in normal weather in a single wet year they can do your body a great deal of damage and even kill you if you eat enough of them.

If you want to play Russian Roulette with unknown toxins in your garden go ahead. I test mine.

Gordon.

[Michelle]

Mother Nature knows best. I need not to worry. There are no toxins. The rabbit poop is known for it's omegas. The rabbits are fed organic feed. So, I am very safe the way I take care of my ground, fruits, & veggies etc. I'm extremely careful. Alot of the times, men are told stuff that is not true in order for them to buy their products. So, in that case, Yes, one must be careful. However, One must ask the question, who benefits financially in the case I mentioned? Why? Because the seller of that product has guinea pigged the buyer into believing he/she needs that product(s). My native Indian ancestry never needed fertilizers or insecticides/pesticides. Some use rabbit poop, some use Buffalo poop, etc. We never got sick from the fruits & vegetables we grew. If anything we lived longer than white men & women. Disease came when the white men & women came here. (There is more to this history than you probably know.) We taught the pilgrims how to grow their food & how to properly take care of Mother Earth. And how to show respect to her. Since the very beginning, the pilgrims refused to listen to us because they thought they knew it all. They used drugs & we used herbs. In fact, it was my ancestors of medicine & holy men & women who saved white men & women from their death many times using our herbs & the fresh fruits & vegetables we grew. I pay attention to my roots! AND SOURCE(GOD). I listen to Mother Earth whenever she speaks. AND SHE DOES SPEAK. The pH is exactly where it needs to be. I am sorry if you felt offended by the way I choose to grow my garden. I did thank you for growing food for others, did I not?! Lots of Love to You, Gordan. Michelle

[Silver Shaman]

Gordon
This is only my humble opinion, I do not claim any righteousness.
The names have been changed to protect the innocent. :)
I admire your knowledge and technical expertise. I am not a farmer however; my grandfather was a cotton share cropper. You may know what that term means.
I think there are a lot of people that care a about Global Warming.
What is Global Warming? If we are having Global Warming why is it happening and
where is the data to prove it. Apparently we have some changes that are induced through pollution by gases introduced through industrialization in our modern era. While the earlier era used coal for such a long time it was short lived after electricity> hydroelectricdams came to be popular. Our increasing demand for gagets is more of a threat for energy (electricity) demand in the next 5 years than any other demand. Our extreme want for house hold gagetry use is up by 2,000%. Since the last 30 years. Most house holds have 2 refrigerators, several TV's several computers, these are never shut down. Lighting demands are popular to make the outsides of our houses look attractive at night, not for safety reasons. Telephones, night lights, and the DVD radio, wake up alarm. The alarm system is also on 24/7. The garage door opener, the rechargeable, tools, cell phones, lap top, RC weed eater and on and on. If we were to go to electric cars to charge at home and on the go the grid would not handle the load within 2 years and that is on the mechanical infrastructure side; this is not including the inability to deliver on demand MegaVoltage.
In this normal were our normal 5 years we will be seeing a good probability of citys having 1 hour shut downs of electricity all through the USA on a Rolling turn off schedule to meet demands. I have spoken with several people that work with TVA in this area and we have production plants that run on 15 minute shut down on demand rates, this usually occurs during the summer months for the plants to shut down.
We are not meeting some high point demands now due to Manufacturing plants that will not participate in Summertime high demand shut downs for neighborhood use. People will keep the thermostat at 68 in summer not 78 and 82 in winter not 75. Our housing contruction designs are of the poorest energy design. If homes are 1/2 bermed in the energy consumption is reduced to near 75 to 80 on heating and cooling due to the geothermal effect, also they are safer in storms and are less costly to build and require less maintenance. Our society is living on an instant gratification moral, and we have foresights about as long as our nose just as business and government. This is all about greed and not humanity. Humans have never been for each other, they have only been for the #1. History has proven this over and over. Even when man has hundreds of billions of dollars it is not enough because man can never have enough due to fear. Man is a fear driven being and that is why he Kills and finds so many ways to justify it even with all the reasons including the Religions that have been followed, killing resulted.
Man loves himself for what is in it for himself. We, the people subsidize farmers with large amounts of land to NOT farm it. In my county a well know millionaire land owner, in which I looked up his last couple of years the US government subsidy payments to him was $256,000 Plus. Why he needs a welfare check from me , you and everyone else, I don't know. I have never been paid to not do anything in my life, however this Government sees fit to pay farmers to lay on their backs. Go figure.
If you have land and you know the system you get free checks from the working people.
Nice system. If more people would go to the county tax system and look up the people they are paying money to in their community and if it were really published well in the media, these people would be embarassed like the bums should be.
My grand father crippled with a crutch barely pulled a living after he got his cut from the land owner. Some how he managed and died penniless but he never took money for not working and he never got 1 dime in social security or medicaid or medicare.
Did he care about Global Warming, yes he did because he cared for his crops more than anyone does now because if he did not make a crop, the 4 daughters and the wife did not eat for the winter. I suspect people don't remember but my mother did and she told me about how they would wait for the cotton leaves to fall after a frost and the cotton to open. Then they would stop school so everyone could go pick the cotton, some times she told me that they could be picking cotton and it would be spitting snow. They did not have defoliating agents then. They had winters that started in early november and went good till march. Then Spring would begin. Now we do not see a difference between late fall and winter. Something is different between 1926 and 2008 and the weather in Alabama, I even see it. I don't know what it is but there is a difference. We have 1 tornado season as a child now we have 4. It is different.
Why? Maybe it is just part of the nature wobble of the earth an man does not have anything to do with any part of it. On the other hand it does not hurt to care or even try
to not pollute. If you do not smoke cigarettes and you find them offensive, would you tolerate them smoking near your office cubicle every day at work, it is only the air you breath.
Whats a little smoke going to do. What is a little Refrigerant, Ammonia, and all the other thousands of low boil off petrochemicals and propellants going into the atmosphere around the communities care if they only breath a few 10 parts per billion every day of some 100 know carcinogens the EPA allows to be emitted into the air by production plants. It is funny that after we expoded the Nuclear test bombs out west in the atmosphere those prevailing winds blowing east made some nice deposits of plutonium and strontium 90. It only takes 1 millionth of 1 microgram of plutonium to cause cancer, and the cancer rate in the east USA is UP only like 100,000% compared to the 40's but I think it is really because people in the Southeast Smoke too many cigarettes.
It is highly unlikely any of those particles were washed down by rain or pushed by winds.
Scientists like large sample sizes, when you work with attribute data because you can prove the accuracy of your hypothesis with your data to a high degree of freedom.
We were the test subjects. The kill population were the Japanese. They are still being studied. We probably have enough streaming data by now on the effects of radiation on the human body from a nuclear bomb.
Nuclear reactors. We need about 100 new reactors right now to meet demand.
We can not build any more dams.
This leaves only a few options.
Coal fired turbine generators, there are several thousand in production now with more
in the making just to replace the old ones. There is more coal than Oil. We will use coal again instead of Nuclear reactors because we will not build breeder reactors.
This is a never ending story.
If the Navy would run the Nuclear Power Plants we would be efficient and save and no waste. They have never had an accident and they do on small water born vessels under strick rules and security. This will never happen.
Off Soap Box.
Namaste
Silverhaman
Metta


I will

[Alexander]

Join us before it's to late
20m years ago we were being warned that unless we curbed our greenhouse gas emissions we would see temp rise leading to more frequent storms droughts and floods. More wars over resources and food, more hunger as crops fail due to climate change. And this is just the beginning.

We have seen these things come to pass in the last year or two and still some people think it is due to normal climate vereation. this Graph below is proof positive that human greenhouse gases are to blame.
Join us before it's to late

Join us before it's to late

[Silver Shaman]

Man only knows so little about the cycles to take such a small sample in the eons of time from the climate changes this Earth has undertaken would be unlikely to make a reliable prediction with out realiable data. Data taken with good validated sampling methods by trained people in the field of metrology. Then their are many more years of which we have no data for Earth Atmospheric chemistry and tempermature and cyclical data. These predictions are are based of fear more that actual science. I for one have been concerned about garbarge dumping and pollution of the earth as a child and that makes little sense for a small child to have those types of concerns when they should just be having fun like other children but I knew something was not right. Volcanic activities, and methane releases from the bottom of the ocean and plankton kills , plus major cuttings of forests and mining of gases from deep withing the earth all place chemicals into the air and land that before, man could not do. However; on the contrary man has stopped natural wild fires that burned for years that clouded the atmosphere we stopped that! The fires fo the dessert oil burning into the skys actually helped cool the temperatures if we recall. We do what we want and it is because of our greed to be comfortable, rich and have lots of nice cars and justify our lavish life styles and power. The more money and power the more we want. We use or believe systems in God we Trust to Justify Wars and our weath however our cancer rate in this country is like a systematic extermination of the offspring of our kind. The other nations of the world do not suffer, obesity, heart disease, diabetic epidemics and weird new diseases and Wage War at Will. This is because Petroleum is the Power of the American Machine, with our Oil we are a sunken ship and everyone in the Government knows it. This is why The Global Warming this is a new Idea to make everyone think someone cares. If we care we can make a small difference over a long streach of time and eventually in a few hundred decades people will have learned to not do what we do now. There will be revolutions and wars and then thining of populations and then the world will become sort of a homogenous people where the remaining areas of best cultivation will be used and the best areas a living will be lived in. Some places will be abandoned only for productions and mining and pollution.We will not see it. For us it will not matter. We will worry our self about it a little but our children and their children will remember little of what we were like. Only some films and books and poetry and wars history and people would kill others for land and enslave others for their own benefit as if they were Gods to own the land, and other people. So who is reponsible for Global Warming the Good People doing their daily deed of purchasing all the things that pollute such as oil, and all the things that come from oil, pesticides, and say I have to have it or those that do something that activate change at the levels to stop all the pollution producing production methods that design in pollution causing waste and more consumption of oil requirements? We don't even own the US any more it is owned by other countries because they do not have the ways or means or infratructure to make things happen fast enough to bring in wealth at the rate they choose. Greed is the problem and if you fight greed your are likely to just be laughed at. Because that is the Capitalist way, take as much as you can and do not worry about anything else that is left behind, enjoy and behappy. Make a few charitable donations for your Karma and then Die.
Namaste
Silvershaman
Metta